How to Get Free Stuff With Product Reviews (With Douglas Kniffin)

[00:00:00] Tim: One of the cool things about being a content creator is that sometimes it can help you get free stuff even if you don't have a massive audience. I've experienced this myself over the years as I've reviewed everything from belts to shoes to software, even a dash cam for my car. And because product reviews are usually built around something people are actively searching for, they can also perform really well as content.

[00:00:20] So then that got me thinking, what if you took this idea and really scaled it? Could you build an entire YouTube channel, maybe even an entire business, based around reviewing products? Well, that's exactly what today's guest, Douglas Kniffen, has done. Doug originally got into YouTube making international travel videos with his wife Nikki, but then when the pandemic changed their plans, they bought an RV to travel domestically and started reviewing the gear that they were using.

[00:00:45] That then caught Amazon's attention and got them an invite to the influencer program there. Then from there, Doug went much deeper into product reviews. Today he's behind several YouTube channels, two of which have more than 14,000 subscribers, and his Reviews Unscripted channel has generated more than 5 million views in the last year alone.

[00:01:03] He's also the founder of the Review Business Academy, where he teaches creators how to build higher quality review content and create revenue streams beyond Amazon. In this conversation, we get into some interesting territory. We talk about why Doug doesn't believe that every YouTube channel needs to be tightly niched, how he structures product reviews to keep people watching, why views and conversions can matter more than subscriber counts, and how creators can diversify their income instead of depending on just one platform.

[00:01:33] We talk about trust, affiliate marketing, the future of product reviews in the age of AI, and why the skill of making good videos may ultimately be more important than success on any one platform. And you're gonna wanna stick around to the end because I've got a few tips that could help you get your first product review opportunity.

[00:01:50] So if that sounds good, then let's get into it

[00:01:52] Intro music.

[00:01:56] Tim: Hey, Doug, welcome to the show! 

[00:01:57] Douglas: Hey, how are you? 

[00:01:59] Tim: Very good, thank you. So I heard that your journey into the creator economy began with international travel videos, and I wanted to know what originally inspired you to go down that road. 

[00:02:11] Douglas: Really was my wife. You know, she just absolutely loves travel.

[00:02:16] She was a professional photographer, and as she was proposing these trips or whatever, we would always go on YouTube and search. Like if we were going to Machu Picchu or whatever- ... we'd go and search. I'd go and search Machu Picchu and watch videos. And I saw lots and lots of content at the time where it was like, you know, beautiful 25-year-olds adventuring in, in, you know-

[00:02:39] Machu Picchu and staying at hostels and stuff. And, you know, that wasn't us. We were a little older, more mature, a little more successful, so we're staying at fancy hotels and going to exotic restaurants and stuff, but still doing the adventure thing. And so I was like, "I don't really see a lot of people speaking to what we're doing. We know how to work cameras. Like, why don't we try to do this?" And then that's how it all started in terms of creating that international kinda content. 

[00:03:09] Tim: Oh, very nice. 

[00:03:11] Douglas: Yeah. 

[00:03:11] Tim: And then you were in India when the pandemic began and barely made it home before the borders closed. So- 

[00:03:17] Douglas: Yes ... 

[00:03:17] Tim: how did that experience ultimately lead to buying an RV and changing direction in your content?

[00:03:23] Douglas: Well, so we were, we were in India, an amazing place to go and see if you ever have an opportunity. Incredible. But, like, as we were, as we left, it was starting... They were starting to talk about things, but it didn't really seem like a big thing. And then as we were there, you know, it really started to evolve.

[00:03:43] That was when, like, the first few Italians were coming down with it and, and it was, it was kinda crazy, and they started to close borders and stuff- Right ... and, and cancel things. And we were literally the last flight out of India. 

[00:03:59] Tim: Oh, 

[00:03:59] Douglas: wow. And, yeah, it was crazy getting into JFK, and there was nobody except our flight in JFK.

[00:04:05] And we lived in New York at the time, and New York locked us down pretty good. You know, I started working out of the house, and, my... Nikki comes to me and she's like, she's like, "We can't be in this house anymore. We gotta travel a little safely. How about we get an RV?" And it's like, whose wife ever comes to them and says, "Let's get an RV?"

[00:04:23] I was like, "Hell yeah, let's get an RV." So we got the RV, and we were able to kinda travel around socially distant and, you know, on our own s- you know- ... completely independently. And, you know, it was, it was amazing, because we could go... We, we c- we'd go to the beach sometimes. Sometimes we'd be in the woods of Maine, you know, like- just doing our own thing and working completely remotely. And creating content while we were doing that. 

[00:04:49] Tim: Yeah, such a crazy time, and it caused so many creators and, and other people had to shift what they were doing. 

[00:04:55] Douglas: Yeah. It was really, it was really like a fortuitous transition- ... to where we are now in the sense that a little bit the same thing.

[00:05:04] Like, I'm like, "Okay, what generator should I get for the RV, and what hoses should I get?" Right. And all this kind of stuff. And I'm on YouTube, I'm like trying to figure out which is the best generator to get, and I'm finding all these guys kind of sitting in their barn or their garage- terrible content, know more about generators than I will ever know.

[00:05:25] But, you know, sitting there talking in great detail, but I'm like, "This is just, like, painful, but I need the information." And so I was like, at that time, I'm like, "Okay, I gotta feed the algorithm, gotta feed the algorithm. I can talk about the generator I chose- ... for the RV, but make it a little more interesting, a little more- understandable for people, maybe a little more visually interesting to watch." And so I started making that content and it's doing good. You know, we're doing... 'Cause there's all kinds- ... of stuff that you need for your RV. So it's doing pretty good and, and Amazon reached out to us and said, "Hey, we're starting an influencer program.

[00:06:01] We want content on Amazon. Would you guys join our program and kind of repurpose your content and start putting it on Amazon?" And then that whole thing- ... spun out of control in a good way. 

[00:06:12] Tim: That's great, and I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, I find the same even with camera equipment, that y- you just need to know one thing.

[00:06:18] And there's this video that, that goes on about so many different things about the camera, and it, it can be hard to find- Yeah, it, it, you know, it's- ... the, the information you actually need ... 

[00:06:27] Douglas: it's hard to strike the right balance, right? Yeah. Because there are definitely camera nerds who would love watching- Mm-hmm that stuff, and I'm sure there are people who wanted to know everything about the carburetor on those generators- Right ... and would watch that other stuff. But, you know, there are lots of people who just wanted some solid advice to tell, you know, what features were important for your basic user of the generator or your basic camera person.

[00:06:53] Mm-hmm. You know, what the frame rates are and how it looks in, in a well-lit room. Whatever you're particularly looking for. But, you know, to... You just gotta try to find the right balance and reach your audience who's looking for that. 

[00:07:06] Tim: Yeah, for sure. So how do you create... You, you talked about creating review videos.

[00:07:12] How do you create a review that genuinely serves the viewer and it still generates clicks and conversions that you need as a creator, you know, trying to monetize your content? 

[00:07:21] Douglas: So it, again it's a little bit the same thing. I happen to be a big nerd of the algorithm on YouTube and the data it gives you and- and all the information and feedback. So, so, at times you start posting content which you think speaks to you. At other times, you start posting content maybe like the very nerdy, detailed stuff that, that you think maybe reaches another market. And then as time goes forward, you're watching the feedback from YouTube- and you're like like every video I used to make used to start, "Hey, I'm Doug from Doug and Nikki," and I could see nobody cared. Absolutely nobody cared, right? So, so I was like, "Okay, let's get rid of that." And, you know- Right ... you, and you, you start to craft your messaging and what you're doing- 

[00:08:12] Based on what you're seeing in terms of your results. And then when you do that right, you actually see the results improve at the same time- ... because your messaging is better for what people are looking for. 

[00:08:24] Tim: Yeah. It's it's tricky, I wanna talk to you about that balance between the niche, what you create for yourself and what you create for the algorithm. And I find it's one of the tricky things to navigate on YouTube. But you launched this review-based channel and you've covered products from several different categories and generated more than 10 million views in two years. That, that's amazing. So what, what took you down that road? What theory were you trying to test when you were- 

[00:08:49] Douglas: Well, so-

[00:08:50] Tim: approaching it? 

[00:08:51] Douglas: Yeah. Well, I really, I struggled with this whole niche thing for a long time, which is gener- generally was the understood theory for- Mm-hmm ... being effective on YouTube. But it was, I s- I watched so much stuff about how to be effective on YouTube, and- It was this weird mixed messaging where they were like, "Well, you know..."

[00:09:13] And you could go to Google Analytics and it would tell you, you know- ... it was looking at your face and what your facial expression was and what you were talking about, and all this- Right ... granular detail of what YouTube understood about your video. But then at the same time, the messaging was YouTube's so stupid that you have to make all your videos the exact same niche- so it knows who to send your video to. 

[00:09:37] Tim: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:37] Douglas: Like, the two things never seemed to match to me. You know? Like, it seemed to me- ... if I was making a video about a generator one day, you- YouTube should know how to know I'm talking about a generator and send it to people who have questions about a generator.

[00:09:53] Tim: Right. 

[00:09:53] Douglas: And then if in the next video I'm talking about basketballs, it should know, "Hey, Doug's talking about ba- basketballs. Let's send this video to people who have-" ... "questions about basketballs." But it didn't seem to work that way initially, and I think that was, I think that was more because YouTube was trying to be a social media platform where you would develop an audience who every, you know, all they wanted to know about was basketballs, and that was your audience- and, you know, create that social media kind of platform. Which, you know, the, the timing was right in terms of what I needed to do in terms of that non-niche- ... and the evolution of, uh, YouTube into more of interest media than- ... social media. So right now YouTube has figured out if I'm talking about basketballs to send it to people who wanna know about- Right

[00:10:47] basketballs, and if I'm talking about generators, to send it to people who- Right ... know about generators. I just kinda chose not to listen to the old guard at the right time and say, "This has to be evolving in the right direction." Um- And it, and it did at the same time. So- 

[00:11:02] Tim: Yeah ... 

[00:11:03] Douglas: so it's worked out well. Not to say there aren't things where a niche is really very applicable and works really well, but you don't have to niche down to be effective anymore. 

[00:11:15] Tim: Well, this is the interesting thing, like- The niche I think fits in with creators who are trying to build a personal brand and, you know, have a social media audience beyond YouTube, and then use that social media audience to drive traffic to YouTube.

[00:11:29] But I find it interesting, and I hadn't even considered the possibility that you could follow this other path of doing reviews of products in quite different niches. The traffic lands on your channel. I guess, um, the thing that we always hear from the guru advice is if somebody lands then on your channel and they see all these products, they're gonna be confused.

[00:11:50] Yeah, it- Do, do you find that happens or do you find- I- ... it doesn't matter because of the strategy you're pursuing? 

[00:11:56] Douglas: Exa- it doesn't matter 'cause of the strategy I'm pursuing. And, and honestly- Mm ... most... I, I have two channels where we do the reviews on, and they both have about 15,000 subscribers. Not- Mm ... because I think anybody is subscribing because they wanna see Doug talk about basketballs and generators- or whatever. I think they're subscribing because we've taught them over the years to click the sub- Right ... subscribe button if they like the content So, but y- you know, so, so they don't really... Our channels, if you went there and you were looking for that experience- Mm-hmm ... where you wanted to fi- follow Doug and hear what he was talking about in terms of products, I guess it wouldn't confuse you.

[00:12:35] I, I have, I don't think that there are any of those people out there, and I don't expect there to be any of those people out there. My, my goal is to make my content really informative and helpful to people who are looking for a specific subject, and make sure that I've built the whole thing around the algorithm so that, YouTube knows exactly who to send my content to.

[00:13:02] Tim: And how do you think about it in terms of your business? Do you care about, like, the subscriber number? Do you track that actively or you're thinking more- 

[00:13:09] Douglas: I sa- It, it, 

[00:13:10] Tim: I, I think- ... about other 

[00:13:11] Douglas: things? ... it's an old metric, you know? For- ... for what w- for what I'm doing, it's, i- it's not a useful metric.

[00:13:19] The, the real metric is the view count, you know, how many people I'm getting the content in front of. And on some level, if you wanna get granular about it the watch time and the effectiveness of those videos when they go to watch them, and if they convert or not, that kind of thing. Right. Um, but the, the head count of people who've clicked subscribe has no real relevance other than, you know, within people in marketing, it hasn't completely sunk in yet that on YouTube here, that's not necessarily a relevant number.

[00:13:54] So I have to do some education with brands and stuff sometimes who are like, "Well, how many subscribers do you have?" You know? And, and I, you know, it, I have to bring them around to say, "Well, I, I, I have 15,000 subscribers," whi- which is, in a relative sense it seems like a little bit of a big number, but when you look at channels with millions of s- it's a meaningless number. But when I say I had 10 million views in the last two years, then that opens up eyes and ears, you know? 

[00:14:23] Tim: Yeah. So, 

[00:14:24] Douglas: yeah. 

[00:14:24] Tim: Yeah, for sure. And then y- you talked a little bit- in your description about using a specific re- review cadence. So what does it mean to use a review cadence to, to generate those kind of view numbers?

[00:14:38] How does that work?

[00:14:39] Douglas: Well, so it, it, you know, I my review, my videos are kind of formulatic. There's a formula that I've kinda created, which again, from, from nerding out on that, that graph- Mm-hmm ... and seeing what's going on. But, you know, y- y- things like instead of starting out with like, "Hey, this is Doug from Doug and Nikki," you know, you gotta start out with a really engaging hook, right?

[00:15:03] Yeah. And then y- then I, I try to give them some friction points. Like- Mm ... I, I've done the research. I know people are commenting that the basketball loses air, you know, as it sits- Right ... around, and so I might say, "Are you worried about, you know, this basketball losing air? Because in this video, we're gonna talk about that so you understand what's going on."

[00:15:24] Like, so you- Mm ... kind of give them... You're talking to their, um, you already know they're most likely curious about this thing, and you're telling them you're gonna address it- Yeah ... and answer this question for them, but you gotta kinda make them wait a little bit to, to get the answer. Right. You know? And so I have all these stages that I go through in the video to keep them interested- keep giving them information, and hopefully, assuming I didn't think it was a piece of junk, at the end, you know, say, "Here's an opportunity to get this if you want." 

[00:15:55] Tim: I think that's an interesting thing you just said about, like, doing the research on what the audience wants to find out about the product before you do the review.

[00:16:03] I think a lot of creators sometimes, they get the product, they're just like, "Okay, what are the features? What can I talk about? What's good? What's bad?" 

[00:16:09] Douglas: Right. 

[00:16:09] Tim: And not that that research component is disconnected until they see the comments and people start asking, like, "Hey, what about this," or, "What about that?"

[00:16:17] Douglas: Right. But- 

[00:16:18] Tim: It's great that you're doing that ahead of time to, to incorporate that. Yeah, 'cause 

[00:16:21] Douglas: I, I think a- going back to the how you get discovered and how people see it, you have to know kind of what the people want to know before you- ... start talking about it, right? Because, 'cause y- you know, you want it to be interesting to them, and you wanna give them info, but if you go to it blindly just reading what's on the Amazon description- you're not really bringing value to most people who are asking questions. 

[00:16:45] Tim: That's right. And then when you're getting into, I guess this, this kind of a natural f- follow-up is, like, you've got this product, you're reviewing it, y- you probably have an affiliate link to it. How do you balance giving the, you know, giving your honest take on it versus the, commercial objective that we have, you know, as creators to make money from the affiliate links?

[00:17:08] So how do you- It's a- ... think about that when you're, when you're putting these things together? Yeah, 

[00:17:12] Douglas: it's, it's a balance. You got, you, you have to strike that right balance. You know, I think I don't pretend to say that I am completely neutral in the situation. You know- Mm-hmm ... you tell them that it was gifted to you and, and- Right

[00:17:25] whatever. But at the same time, you know, if they were to choose to look at my channel, there, there are plenty of things that I don't like in the process. Normally, there's certainly- Like I try to even, I've even as experiments like every once in a while bought like the worst of some other ... some product on Amazon just to do a review of it.

[00:17:49] And a lot of times I'm like, "Okay, the instructions are terrible, the assembly is- Mm-hmm ... impossible." But in the end of the day, you're getting something that's very inexpensive and there might be- Yeah ... value for the right person, you know? It, but if you're looking for the perfect, easy thing like IKEA style- furniture, this isn't the answer, you know? So I, so I just try to give the, the truth of the matter- 

[00:18:14] Tim: Yeah ... 

[00:18:14] Douglas: and let them decide what they wanna do or don't wanna do in terms of buying it,

[00:18:19] Tim: Yeah, I think that's a great way to approach it. And e- every product if you think about it has like benefits and drawbacks, and you can just com- by communicating that, that's how you build the trust as the reviewer.

[00:18:29] Douglas: Right. Yeah, you know, I mean, even like, I'm think, like my j- I reviewed a bunch of drones and stuff- Mm-hmm ... over the course of time, right? And like there's some drones where you, you expect it to be a premium drone and have great- ... video quality and that kind of stuff, and it better, better live up to that.

[00:18:47] And then there are other ones that you, you, you try and it's like a $60 esse- essentially- Mm-hmm ... toy, and quality isn't great because- ... you paid $60 for a- ... little bit of a toy, like- Yeah ... I, I love those comments. Like I'll do that, that review of that basic toy drone and they're like, "Well, my DJI image is, is so much better."

[00:19:06] I'm like- ... " It costs 20 times what this costs." Yeah. Like what, you know, what, what are you talking about? Like it's not reasonable. But yeah. 

[00:19:13] Tim: Yeah. Yeah, they gotta judge the product based on what it's trying to do. 

[00:19:16] Douglas: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You, you can't, you can't make the, the toy be a high quality drone. 

[00:19:23] Tim: So, uh, another thing that's important for creators is this idea of where they're building their business, and you talk about Amazon being rented land.

[00:19:32] So how do you deal with that in terms of building something s- that's sustainable in this,

[00:19:37] Douglas: Yeah, so because I came from YouTube to Amazon, which for people who don't know, this whole Amazon influencer program is like this giant thing. Mm-hmm. So many people have made like a real living out of this doing this.

[00:19:51] It's like a whole amazing thing that's occurred. 

[00:19:53] Tim: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:54] Douglas: But the problem is Amazon controls it all and, and like- ... a couple months ago Amazon cut the commissions by 50%- Mm ... right? And people were freaking out. Oh. And so, so, you know, I, because I came from YouTube first, have like this base of revenue from offsite, from non on Amazon.

[00:20:14] Right. So I'm like a little insulated from Amazon's, you know, whatever Amazon decides to do. It is- Mm-hmm ... Amazon, right? So, so I actually- Decided I created this course, the Review Business Academy which was 100% directed around all these people who have really invested themselves in this effort into creating Am- Amazon content reviews.

[00:20:38] And so I decided to use all my knowledge that I put together for all these years on YouTube and kinda turn it into a course so that they could create YouTube quality content- 

[00:20:49] Tim: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:20:49] Douglas: and have multiple platforms where they could generate revenue- ... and kind of insulate themselves from the craziness on You- on Amazon, create additional value for them.

[00:21:01] Because trust me, the brands are more looking on YouTube what's going on to reach out to people to talk about their products- Mm-hmm ... than looking at what's on Amazon. And it works on so many different levels just to kinda broaden out the base of your business. And the difference between basic UGC content on Amazon and, like, quality content for YouTube isn't that broad.

[00:21:25] And when you make that really good content like you g- you need to make for YouTube, it's more effective on Amazon also. So it's like a- That's true ... it, it's a win-win, and it doesn't add very much to the process of doing that. 

[00:21:39] Tim: So I guess basically just diversifying the sources for the, uh, you know, for, for the products and, and their commissions was the way.

[00:21:48] Yeah, the, 

[00:21:48] Douglas: yeah. And it's additive, right? Because you're diversifying your sources for those the revenue. 

[00:21:55] Tim: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:55] Douglas: But at the same time, you're still improving your results on Amazon, so you're not giving up on the Amazon thing as it is right now. Right. But at the same time, you're putting yourself in a position where you could also make revenue from YouTube through YouTube's- affiliate, from, you could put a link for Walmart if the product's at Walmart also. You know, you're just creating all kinds of additional channels for you to make revenue from the same activity. 

[00:22:20] Tim: And one of the things I think creators struggle with sometimes too is like, you know, you, you could say that YouTube is, in a way it, it's kind of- you know, something not under your control as well.

[00:22:30] So diversification of platforms, do you try to do that or are you s- are you still fairly, I guess, comfortable with the way YouTube's going? 

[00:22:39] Douglas: Listen, it it's the internet, so stuff changes so fast and you, the f- the moment you think you have some control over what's going on, you, you know, you, you've kind of lost control 'cause- Yeah

[00:22:53] It is very random. But at the same time, my day job is I have an insurance agency. I've been in that business for 30-plus years, and listen, random stuff happens there too. You know, like insurance- Yeah ... companies all of a sudden decide, "We don't wanna write homeowners in New York," and- and you, you have this big speed bump, right? So those things happen in other things. They definitely happen faster in the social- Yeah ... media world. So- So you know, you can't control YouTube. There've been all kinds of... There was the ad apocalypse 10 years ago- ... and all kinds of different things where the where rates changed and what people's...

[00:23:29] Actually, as we sit here today, those ch- those channels where they had millions of views and they are- ... totally niched out are all kind of somewhat struggling now because- ... the algorithm has changed. And- 

[00:23:42] Tim: Right ... 

[00:23:42] Douglas: and the algorithm has diversified what people see, and it's kinda damaged that super niche version of doing YouTube.

[00:23:50] Not in, MrBeast isn't, isn't struggling- Mm-hmm ... but at the same time, he his videos don't get anywhere near the views that they used to get, you know? Yeah. Which can't be good for his model either, you know? So- Right ... so, you know, when MrBeast can't control it, you know it's a fool's game to try to control what's going on.

[00:24:09] Tim: Yeah. I always think about it's like the, the base skills that you're building is the important thing. Like, how to make videos really effectively. That'll work- Yeah ... wherever, whatever platform you need to go to. 

[00:24:20] Douglas: Yeah. Y- and you can translate it, whether it is to TikTok or Instagram or- ... you know, whatever the next one is we haven't thought of yet.

[00:24:28] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:24:29] Douglas: You have to be flexible and be able to adjust what you're doing, but the basics, the communication skills- ... the making a video skill, those things are really transferable. 

[00:24:37] Tim: Yeah. How to hook the viewer, like how to frame your video, how to edit it, produce it, all that stuff.

[00:24:43] Douglas: Listen, it sounds like something new that we've created, like this hook thing, you know, like it's a whole thing. But trust me, when you walk into the car dealership and you start a conversation with the, the salesman from 50 years ago- 

[00:24:57] Tim: Right ... 

[00:24:57] Douglas: they probably started like, "Oh, man, you would look amazing in this sports car." Like, I mean, it's just human nature. It's not something new that we've invented. It's just something new that's being applied to this, this visual format. 

[00:25:11] Tim: So what's the unbreakable foundation on YouTube then? Is it search traffic? Um, we've, we've said it's not subscribers. What about email lists? Are you, are you building that as well at the same time that you're building the channel?

[00:25:25] Douglas: The, the email list has been my single biggest failure as a business in the sense that, you know, like you were talking about, and I'm sure- ... you're alluding to, like in the end, the email list is the only thing that you truly own- ... in terms of this marketing business. So that, that email list is an essential. I haven't found a great format or way to build that through what I do. 

[00:25:51] Tim: Right. Um, 

[00:25:52] Douglas: and that's, that, that's been my personal thing that I haven't figured that out. It's still in my brain, how am I gonna create a better email list? Because, you know, the email list is the thing that- ... if YouTube closed tomorrow- you can in essence take that email list, email everybody on the list, say, "Hey, I am now on X. Come-" Right ... "come follow me on X." And that would be a really valuable thing, and anybody sh- who should be trying to create that- ... because that is your business in a nutshell. I just haven't f- found the magic sauce to do it here on, on YouTube.

[00:26:25] Tim: It is a challenge 'cause it's a whole other thing to get people to- Well ... to sign up for. It's one thing to get people to watch your videos, but it's another thing to get them onto yet another platform. And then of course you have to produce that platform. You've gotta- - ... send out those emails

[00:26:37] Douglas: You have to give them something of value, right? Yeah. And if I'm on YouTube talking about five different random products- ... every day, what is the core thread- ... that I could give those five different people of value? It's yeah, I haven't figured that out. Haven't figured that out.

[00:26:54] It's a challenge. 

[00:26:55] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:56] Douglas: But eventually we'll get that done. 

[00:26:58] Tim: Mm-hmm. So but you're still comfortable with anchoring it on YouTube. You think there's enough consistency with the, the algorithm and the approach, I guess the search-based approach? 'Cause search- Yeah ... 

[00:27:09] Douglas: has been important. The search- You know?

[00:27:10] It's really the search-based approach thing. Listen, there's no bigger, no more stable platform than YouTube. It's been around for 20 years. It's the second- Yeah ... biggest search engine in the world. Exploding on TV, you know? Mm. It, it, it's kinda crazy. More people watch YouTube on their TVs in their living room than all of the streaming services combined at this point, which is kinda crazy.

[00:27:35] Tim: It's amazing. Yeah. And I was just thinking the other day about how like with- YouTube now, like search, it, it's almost the more impor- important search engine than Google because now when you're going to Google, you've always got the... You could always just click Ask AI. Right. And increasingly people are doing that, so- Increasingly people are doing that. If you are searching YouTube- Yeah ... you actually wanna see a video, so you- 

[00:27:57] Douglas: Yeah. I think, I think it will, I think the viewer will niche down, become a little more limited- Mm-hmm ... because of the summaries from AI and that- Yeah ... kind of stuff. But then at the same time, that limited number of viewers, that kind of like a smaller pond of viewers in the end- is going to be a much more interested and engaged audience than- 

[00:28:23] Tim: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:28:23] Douglas: the whole of the world who didn't, wasn't able to get an AI summary three years ago. Yeah. So I think the, the numbers probably will degrade a little bit with some of the AI, but you're gonna get a more intense relationship with whoever's watching the video.

[00:28:40] Tim: Yeah, and to your point about making the videos effectively, I think that is part of what will keep people from hitting the summary button. It feels like I click on it, okay, I'm a- I'm actually enjoying the way this is being presented. I think I'll just watch it rather than- Right. Yeah ... ask for the summary.

[00:28:56] Douglas: Yeah, again, it's like we said earlier, if you think you're gonna sit there and read the Amazon description and somebody's gonna watch this video it is not gonna, it's not gonna work long term. 

[00:29:06] Tim: Yeah. So what do you think the, be- because of the AI summary and all the changes in the market, what do you think, like, the product review business is gonna look like? Is it gonna fundamentally change? Is there still a demand for it? 

[00:29:20] Douglas: I think it's a little bit... There will always be some demand, enough demand- ... for it to be a really viable business. I think- This is, it's one of these things where I think AI is going to do an incredible amount of damage to the people who are- doing this right now from a long-term perspective. 

[00:29:40] Tim: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:41] Douglas: I don't think two years from now, three y- two... I don't think two years from now the v- the, the, the business is gonna disappear because the brands are just gonna make AI avatars to- ... to do what we're doing. I don't think that we're really quite there yet.

[00:29:54] But at the same time I created Doug's Daily Deal Group, where I literally make two silly AI videos of my wife and I. I take our photo pictures from when we travel all over the world, and I put the goofy products in these crazy- Yeah ... things. In, like, 10 minutes I make these videos. And they don't exactly look like us all the time. They don't exactly sound like us all the time. Right. But the fact that I can do that in 10 minutes now- ... should be, like, a little scary for somebody who thinks they're gonna do this for 20 years. 

[00:30:28] Tim: Right. 

[00:30:28] Douglas: 'Cause, 'cause five years from now There will always be some small set of people who are gonna say, "I wanna see a human being."

[00:30:37] Tim: Right. 

[00:30:38] Douglas: But there's probably 80% of the people who are gonna be like, "I don't care if it's human or not, I wanna be entertained. I want the information." 

[00:30:46] Tim: Mm. 

[00:30:46] Douglas: As long as it's accurate and correct information, they'll be happy to watch an avatar that looks exactly like me and speaks exactly like me. They won't care.

[00:30:55] Though, so I think a lot of things are gonna evolve over AI, and, and- 

[00:30:59] Tim: Yeah ... 

[00:31:00] Douglas: content creation will certainly be one 'cause it is, is- It's 

[00:31:03] Tim: gonna be interesting. I think it could also generate, like, a counter-reaction where people want to see just a, you know, an, an imperfect person stumbling through a product review- And it, it- or other, 'cause then they go, "Okay, that's authentic. That's... I know that's-" Yeah. No, it- "... what the person's really thinking about it." 

[00:31:19] Douglas: It... Absolutely. There, you know, I'm sure there will be, there'll be, like, this big surge of AI- Yeah ... and then it'll pull back where people wanna see the original things, and then as time goes on, it'll... who knows where it'll end up. Right. You know? And, and, you know, even to that point, when I make my videos I definitely leave a couple stumbles in there. Mm-hmm. I don't re-shoot things 10 times till it's, like, perfect because I want them to know I'm still human and talking about things, you know? 

[00:31:46] Tim: That's right, yeah.

[00:31:47] Yeah. And I think the other thing is the trust you build up as the person. You can kind of do the AI-generated stuff because people know that, okay, behind it is Doug, who is actually a real person- yeah ... and a real creator independent, uh, of the company too. It's not- Right ... you know, you're not... you're putting it out as an individual, not as, like, the, uh, you know, the company representative. The brand. 

[00:32:07] Douglas: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's- Yeah ... it, it will be an interesting question. I don't th- we're not there at all in any way, shape, or form. And I think, you know- No ... as humans, we're always gonna have a little more depth and value to bring to things. But, you know, it's like every other thing. Yeah. You're gonna be competing against Like very bright and shiny new equipment, you 

[00:32:27] Tim: know? Yeah. Yeah. I think people also just like, uh, some people like creating review videos. You know, it's kinda fun to do. I absolutely- It's fun to get free stuff, it's fun to review it.

[00:32:35] Douglas: I absolutely love it. I love doing it. It's I, it is like- 

[00:32:39] Tim: Yeah ... 

[00:32:40] Douglas: I work so hard, so many hours doing this, but I do really like what I do, you know? Whether- Mm-hmm ... whether it be, you know, I, I do a lot of pool robots or, or if it's- Mm ... an e-bike or an RC car or lately I've been doing sous vide cooking with all the different equipment and stuff.

[00:32:59] It's it's fun. It's- Yeah ... y- I, I enjoy it. So it is definitely, at least for me, one of those things where, like, work is enjoyable. 

[00:33:07] Tim: Yeah me too. And then so if people wanna get into this and learn more about the Business Review Academy, follow your work how do they do that?

[00:33:15] Douglas: Yeah. They c- they can go to reviewbusinessacademy.com, and I actually do, just to kinda introduce myself and help people out, I do a free 15-minute channel review- ... for people that, you know, if you sign up, you don't have to enroll in the course, but if you sign up, I'll do that 15-minute channel review with you. We'll talk about YouTube strategy. I'll take a look at your channel, and there's always some really quick, actionable- Mm ... things that I could give people to help them move their businesses forward in terms of that stuff. 

[00:33:42] Tim: That's a great offer. I know how much those... They seem like small tweaks, but they can make a big difference.

[00:33:48] Douglas: And it's, look, I've been looking at and doing YouTube for over 10 years, like on a daily basis. So what seems normal to me is not natural. Yeah. Actually, I'll even say, like, you know, when I, teaching people how to do, you know, a call to action, like to click- Mm ... the affiliate link, I'm like, "You literally have to say there's a link here on the screen or one down below."

[00:34:09] Because you have to assume grandma's gone onto YouTube to buy a drum set for her grandson. 

[00:34:16] Tim: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:17] Douglas: And they don't live in the world that we live of affiliate marketing and YouTube- Right ... and videos. And they're just trying to figure out which drum set to get for their grandson. So you have to actually have to tell them, "There's a link down there below.

[00:34:29] Click on that- Mm ... and go get the drum set there," and people, you don't just naturally understand that even just because you decided you wanted to do Amazon reviews. Right. You know, somebody has to tell you those things. So, so yeah, so. 

[00:34:41] Tim: Absolutely. Well, thanks for spending some time with me today, Doug.

[00:34:43] Douglas: Yeah, it's been great, Tim. Thanks for having me. 

[00:34:46] Tim: So I think that one of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is Doug's experience with niching, or really not niching. If you spend enough time listening to YouTube and content creation advice, you'll hear over and over again that you need to pick a very specific niche and stick with it. Doug's experience suggests that there's another way.

[00:35:02] He's built channels around reviews of all different kinds of products, and because those videos are serving people who are actively searching for information about a specific product, they don't necessarily all have to appeal to exactly the same audience. Like, clearly lots of viewers are still finding his channel.

[00:35:18] And I think that's a perspective that's pretty refreshing, especially if you're a newer creator and you're feeling hemmed in by this idea that you have to select a niche before you even really get started. Now having said that, I think there are some advantages to being at least somewhat niched. If you become more focused and known as a channel for photography gear, video equipment, creator tools, or some other specific category, for example, it becomes easier for brands to understand who your audience is and why they might wanna work with you specifically.

[00:35:47] This can also make it easier to build an audience around your products and services because you're more clear on who you're serving as well. And there still may be some algorithmic benefits to having related content on your channel, even if recommendation algorithms have gotten better at understanding individual videos and viewer interests.

[00:36:04] For example, related content is more likely to drive binge-watching behavior, which algorithms tend to like. But I think Doug's experience shows that you don't have to have it all figured out before you even start. Those of you who have been subscribed to my YouTube channel for a while have seen me go through some of this process myself.

[00:36:21] You know, I've experimented with different kinds of topics and content over the years, figured out what I enjoyed making, watched what audiences responded to, and gradually developed a clearer idea of where I wanna focus. And sometimes I think doing a few different things is exactly what you need in order to eventually figure out what your niche should become.

[00:36:40] So don't ever let not having the perfect niche be the thing that stops you from creating in the first place Now, at the beginning of this episode, I promised I'd share a few ways you could potentially land your first brand deal, and I see three potential routes, starting with the most passive and working towards the most active.

[00:36:56] Now, the good news is the first one is easy. Simply focus on growing your audience, and the first opportunities should eventually start coming your way. In my own case, once I got somewhere around 4 to 500 subscribers on YouTube, I started getting more outreach from brands and other people interested in guest appearances, product reviews, and sponsorship opportunities.

[00:37:14] And of course, there's no magic number where this is bound to happen. But if you consistently publish valuable content, promote it across multiple platforms, and keep building views in your audience, eventually brands may start finding you. And you can absolutely help that process along by reviewing products you already own.

[00:37:30] You don't need someone to send you something for free before you can start making product review videos. Just create a few good review videos on your own initiative, and then you've got another way to get found, plus you've got something to show when a brand does reach out. I still do this with my own content sometimes.

[00:37:45] Now, the second route is using a creator marketplace. Once brands started reaching out to me, I wanted to see if I could get some brand deals myself, and that's when I discovered Insense. It's a platform that connects creators with brands looking for user-generated content and other creator partnerships.

[00:38:00] That's how I picked up my VETELO tactical belt product review opportunity, and I picked up a couple of other collaborations through this platform as well. In my experience, the products aren't super high value, like between 50 and $100, but that's perfectly fine if you're just getting started. You're getting a free product, you're getting experience working with a brand, and if you build a good relationship with them, maybe you're getting a reference that you can use for the next opportunity.

[00:38:22] And that brings us to our third route, reaching out to brands directly. Once you've got a bit of experience and you've got at least a little bit of an audience, you could start pitching brands directly to see if they'd like to work with you. This is where it can be tremendously helpful if you can show them examples of previous collaborations, audience information, and references from brands that you've already worked with.

[00:38:41] And you could use ChatGPT or another AI tool to help you draft and refine your outreach email. And if you really wanna level up your pitch, you can create a simple brand kit that shows who you've collaborated with, add a few testimonials in there, tell them a little bit about yourself, and also talk about your content focus, type of audience you have, and the kind of reach you've achieved on different platforms.

[00:39:02] Put the strategies we've talked about together and you've got several different ways in which to land that first brand deal. But remember, this is ultimately a numbers game. Not every company is gonna respond. Not every pitch is gonna turn into a brand deal. The key is just don't get discouraged. Learn something from every pitch and collaboration, continue to refine and improve your approach, and keep building your audience and your body of work.

[00:39:23] That's how you eventually turn a few free products into real experience and credibility for your brand, and potentially another revenue stream for your content business. I hope you found this conversation helpful. If you wanna learn more about what happens once you do land that first product review opportunity, check out my earlier episode where I take you through a behind-the-scenes look at my sponsored content for the SAFY dashcam.

[00:39:45] Thanks for watching and listening. I hope you have a great day, and we'll see you in the next episode.